Plaid warned not to cut help for poorer children if it wants Labour to back budget

Welsh Labour has said it will not support the Welsh government's budget if cuts are made to a flagship early years programme.

The party's leader, Ken Skates, said the future of the Flying Start scheme "has to be a red line" in his party's ongoing budget talks with the government.

A Plaid Cymru government minister praised aspects of the scheme but did not say whether it would continue in its current form.

The Welsh government said support for "disadvantaged children will be enhanced" as it expands its free childcare policy.

Plaid Cymru is running the Welsh government without a majority of seats in the Senedd, meaning that it has to strike deals with other political parties in Cardiff Bay in order to pass budgets or new laws.

First launched in 2007, the Flying Start scheme was primarily designed to help children in the poorer areas of the country with their language, social and physical development before starting school.

It also includes 12.5 hours of free childcare for two-year-olds, and is being expanded Wales-wide as part of the Welsh government's ultimate policy aim of providing free childcare 20 hours a week to all children between nine months and four years.

Since May's election, the new government has been under pressure to explain how it was going to fund its flagship childcare policy.

The Welsh government's latest estimate is that it would require between £250m and £500m of extra funding a year, depending on how many parents make use of the scheme.

Speaking at an event held by the Senedd Sources podcast on Tuesday, Plaid's Minister for Government Effectiveness, Dafydd Trystan Davies, did not rule out cutting or changing the Flying Start programme.

Asked if he could guarantee that the scheme would still be available by the time of the next Senedd election, he replied: "I don't think I can guarantee that any single programme will be in its current form."

Davies said: "What is really strong and important with Flying Start is those areas around speech and language therapy, is around the health aspect.

"So, can you guarantee that those provisions of Flying Start will be there as part of the [childcare] offer? Clearly, it has to be.

"What I've seen with Flying Start is the budget allocated to different councils. Some councils have been far more effective at delivering to a large number of poor and disadvantaged children and therefore, what I'm keen to see there, is that all councils adopt the best practice.

"As has been done in various contexts, you can target that provision."

Back in July, the government lost a Senedd vote on extra spending plans after failing to strike a deal with Welsh Labour.

Plaid and Welsh Labour are currently holding fresh budget negotiations around this year's supplementary budget and next year's full budget.

In an interview with BBC Walescast, Welsh Labour Leader Ken Skates said: "It appears they're looking at using Flying Start money to pay for something they never costed during the election or in their manifesto, the childcare offer, which will benefit a lot of middle class and upper class families.

"But it's going to be people and children who benefit from Flying Start who will pay the price.

"I would be deeply disappointed if Plaid didn't commit to the future of Flying Start."

Asked if any change to Flying Start would rule his party out of supporting the budget, Skates replied: "For us as a party, I think it has to be a red line.

"If Plaid Cymru think they can take the best of Flying Start and apply it in different areas, I'm afraid they're going to let people down badly.

"So, I'm afraid, if they're talking about Flying Start, then they're going to have to do it by themselves, without our consent or support and they won't be getting a budget approval from us."

Steffan Evans, head of the Bevan Foundation, said: "The majority of children living in poverty are not in Flying Start areas.

"So, if we want to get a childcare system that helps child development in terms of the education and parents back into work and gets to those children in poverty, you do have to strike a compromise, I think, in terms of how that operates.

"And that might mean going towards something more universal to get to more children, rather than something that's perfect, but only answers part of the problem."

Reform's minister for fairness, families and communities, Cristiana Emsley, said: "Plaid Cymru are raising the prospect of cutting funding for vulnerable children while continuing to spend money on overseas embassies, its Nation of Sanctuary programme and tree planting in Uganda.

"At a time when families across Wales are struggling with the cost of living and children are in need of support, it is clear Plaid have the wrong priorities."

A Welsh government spokesperson said: "Our offer means that childcare will be more accessible and affordable to all families.

"The current phase of delivery which will provide funded childcare for all two-year-olds is being delivered through the Flying Start model.

"At the same time, the support available to disadvantaged children will be enhanced as a result of our offer.

"We will need to substantially increase the number of providers to ensure that families have childcare options that work for them.

"These are all matters under discussion by the Expert Group on Childcare as we work on rolling out the next phase of this ambitious policy."