NHS 'will collapse' without social care reform, PM tells BBC

Andy Burnham has told the BBC "the NHS will collapse" if social care is not reformed but said he could not put a timeline on changes.

In his first major interview since becoming prime minister, Burnham said he would not want to leave office without bringing in "substantial change" to the social care system.

The prime minister also suggested making it harder to claim benefits, saying the country had to get serious about getting the welfare bill down.

Kemi Badenoch has meanwhile written to the prime minister, saying he should rule out tax rises or increased borrowing to fund social care reform.

In his interview with the BBC, Burnham said if the government did not reform social care, the NHS would "collapse under the weight of trying to care for people who've really not needed to end up in the NHS system".

But pressed on whether he would create a new system before the next election, he said he "couldn't put a timeline on it right here, right now", though he would put "whatever political capital I have into fixing broken social care".

Burnham first proposed a universal system of social care in England in 2009 when he was health secretary under Gordon Brown.

Now as prime minister he is due to make a speech on adult social care on Wednesday.

The BBC understands the PM will stop short of unveiling plans for a new system in this speech, instead announcing he is speeding up the Casey Commission, an independent review which has been considering possible solutions for social care.

Currently Baroness Louise Casey is not expected to give her final recommendations until 2028, but Burnham wants to bring her schedule forward.

He told the BBC: "Social care was on longer path and I have brought it straight forward."

Adult social care provides support to help people live more independently, ranging from personal care such as washing to household tasks.

Unlike the NHS, social care is not free at the point of use. In England and Northern Ireland people with savings worth more than £23,250 are not entitled to help with care costs from their council.

In Wales and Scotland different rules apply in terms of eligibility.

Adult social care has proved a complex issue to tackle for successive governments.

Two years ago Sir Keir Starmer was criticised when Labour scrapped plans for an £86,000 cap on the amount people in England would spend on social care in their lifetime.

Conservative leader Badenoch wrote in her letter to Burnham that "any solution to the issues around social care must also be fair to those who have made provisions and saved up over the course of their lives".

The prime minister also addressed the issue of benefits in his interview.

He said he might "increase the conditions on people required to receive benefits", telling the BBC he believed "there are people out there who, with the right support, can go into work."

He added: "It's about changing the nature of the support and making some of the support conditional upon people taking opportunities that are presented in front of them. So you might increase the conditions required to receive benefits. "

He said he would not go "straight to blaming " people on benefits, saying "there are people in the benefits system, young people in their 20s who have been quite seriously let down because the support wasn't there for them when it should have been there".

In the wide-ranging interview, the prime minister also spoke about how he would be prepared to call out Donald Trump to defend Britain's national interest.

On a lighter note, Burnham was asked if his dog Axel would be moving in to Number 10 Downing Street.

He said "Axel would have to stay up north" because he would not get on with Larry the Cat.

He said Axel, who is part bichon frise, part poodle, has "got that angry little man thing going on" and "I don't think the nation would thank me if I brought Axel down to disturb Larry's world", joking ,"these are the big decisions. The big decisions they've been made."

Watch the full interview, BBC Panorama "Andy Burnham: the Laura Kuenssberg Interview" on iPlayer from 06:00 on Monday and BBC One on Monday at 20:00 BST.